Published on October 23, 2001 By gorman In WinCustomize Talk
Over the past few days I've heard some remarks and seen some actions taken which have deeply worried me. Over these days I have seen the community which I care so much about damaged greatly due to fighting and anger within it. From this, I have seen emotions pouring out from every side of every disagreement, every message board thread, and in general, every site. I have seen people from both sides of every argument rush to the defense, and in many cases offense, of their argument. In general, I have seen more separation in this community over the past 48 hours then I have seen in months, maybe longer. Egos have clashed, emotions have raged, and the leaders of the websites in our community have been openly attacked for various reasons. There is no way anyone in this community who reads these boards has gone unaffected by this, I know that for a fact.

I haven't been very vocal the past few months, but my support and love for this community have continued to grow every second. With this in mind, you can imagine how an event like this which is tearing our community apart affects me. I'm never one to jump to a conclusion or pick a side; I always look at an overview of a problem and work to find a solution. After holding off on commenting on any thread over the past few days, I felt I must step forward and do everything in my power to pull things back together.

In any community, or even just any group of people, there are always going to be conflictions between various people. That’s just the way of the world; nothing is going to keep problems from occurring like this every now and again. However, what can be done is to work in a resolute way in order to solve the problems instead of making them worse. Arguing your side of the problem won't help anything, I think we've all seen this over the past few days. The only way to really solve any problem is to drop your ego & pride for a few minutes and look at the other side of the argument in order to really understand where the other person is coming from. Many times just by taking a clear look at the other side's feelings on the issue you can come to a resolution. Other times the best way to get past a problem or confliction is just to be the mature one and drop the argument. If you can gather the strength to say “you know what, let us forget about who is right or wrong here, let’s just move on for the good of the community”, you will be able to overcome many disagreements. Sure, you won't win any arguments, but you'll gain more respect by handling your problems in this fashion.

Those who I respect most are the ones who constantly prove themselves to be level-headed, and I honestly believe that those running any site in our great community will not get very far without this skill. This also applies to any member of the community, as you will clearly make a better image of yourself in people's mind by always being diplomatic. All of this said, I urge everyone to look past the arguments at hand, and work to find a solution for them rather then continuing to argue. As I said earlier, sometimes the best way to solve things is to really understand the other person's side rather then trying to play offense. Always remember, even though you might not agree with what the other person has to say, they always have reasoning in their head for getting mad. The trick is, figure out why, and help them solve the problem.

I truly hope that over the next 48 hours things will begin to turn around and everyone involved will begin to regain respect from those they had differences with. I honestly believe everyone in this community is a good person, and I think we can work together to heal the community. Our community needs to continue to grow and get stronger, and in order to do that, we really need everyone's support. Please, let us work together to make this happen. Thank you very much.

Sincerely,
David Gorman
Comments (Page 3)
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on Oct 23, 2001
Getting back to this original thread, my respects to you, Gorman.
on Oct 23, 2001
Allright everyone, back to the top. Read Gorman's post again. If you honestly feel like fighting after that you can be my guest.

I, however, am going off to enjoy myself while making another skin.
on Oct 23, 2001
bless you oinky
on Oct 23, 2001
I'd like to buy the world a home and furnish it with love,


Grow apple trees and honey bees, and snow white turtle doves.


I'd like to teach the world to sing in perfect harmony,


I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company.

Ah, they had it right in '71! (Too bad I wasn't born yet!) BTW, I'm not being sarcastic, I've always loved the message of that song (and I don't mean the "buy more Coke" message)....
on Oct 23, 2001
here's my take as a nobody. Brad bashing has become so accepted and so common that l0c thought he could actually make a "Brad's a Nazi" post and people wouldn't condemn him for it. the civilized people of our little community have finally gotten fed up and said in a loud voice "ENOUGH!". l0c and other meglomaniacs are just seeing the backlash of this. they were the straw that broke the camels back.
on Oct 23, 2001
Shoggot - I didn't say anyone should leave. I said that these kinds of conflicts will end when the people who start them stop creating them.

But I do agree with ya about the undercurrent of conflict between the freeware advocates and the non-freeware advocates. I use whatever is the best that I can afford. I don't care if it's "free" or not. There is nothing noble about freeware over commercial. Freeware doesn't create jobs or put food on people's tables.
on Oct 23, 2001
there's something noble in altruism, of which sharing your software freely is a form.

you're correct that it does not put food in the mouths of the devs, or pay for webhosting; if it did, it wouldn't be altruistic, would it?
on Oct 23, 2001
Nothing is pure altruism though. The 545 crew are definite glory hounds. That's the payment they want. Nothing wrong with that. But companies can do altruistic things too. I've seen WC's balance sheet. There's no ongoing form of altruism in this community of greater expense than this site and deviantart.

This should be its own thread, shog. It would be a good discussion.
on Oct 23, 2001
As champion of the 'off topic' post...all I can say is...
I want a tee-shirt with the words....
"I survived the Shell Wars"

[I remember them well]...
on Oct 23, 2001
gorman - good to see you :]
on Oct 23, 2001
craeonics knew this would be a fun thread when I saw it pop up hours ago

Ego clashes make interesting reading material. And this "community" has grown too big to be without those. Too many people, too many opinions.
on Oct 23, 2001
You're still used to throwing wise words in to deep space, shoggot ?

Ok, clan defending SD/frogboy beyond the reasonable balance he puts up himself, usually, after a while - exploiting the real mistakes of "the other side" (yes, "nazi" ain't a nice word at all, and shouldn't have been expressed) is what really drives any community still alive apart.

Seen some genuine attempts at gluing stuff together (crae, doreen, crumbut) just ending in: "he said that word,we'll never trust anybody close to him anymore, anywhere... or something... gorman and shog have another attempt, and while everybody seems to agree, tendency is again to point fingers, seems some didn't understand while agreeing...

frogboy, have you finished reading/evaluating ? Seems your word is needed to end the (stupid) show. Maybe it would help to tell how this affected you. People, like me, may not like SD (or like/respect, but choosing that other approach), but should respect you..

I wouldn't have imagined ever, but maybe now (just now), I'd very much welcome one of the novels you're putting up, just to level stuff here again.
on Oct 24, 2001
Okay i dont totally agree Shoggot with the comparison between Brad and 545. If i get your post correctly (and i may be wrong in how i'm interpreting this)theres animosity becuase Stardock charges and 545 Studios doesnt.

Well...

I think that's totally offbase. And i can tell you why. Becuase i remember more than a year or so ago 545 was trying to charge for some of their apps (Can't remember which one) but i remember jier complianing that it wasnt selling. So if theres animosity there i would say if anything it would be competitive jealousy and not because one is a die-hard freeware designer and one makes money creating software.

One thing you can say is thank god for companies like Stardock. They fuel the skinning community by creating apps that people want to skin. I mean when first entering the community i remember skinners refusing to skin shareware software. But that doesnt happen with these apps. Also think of how many families are earning a paycheck becuase of this. In turn helping the economy.
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